Jewish Monarchy in Israel

כ״ה בתמוז ה׳תש״ע (Wednesday 7 July 2010) · 25 comments

Will S. asked these questions:

I’m Canadian, and an ardent monarchist myself; to me, it ties in with my patriotism, and my faith as a Christian (of the Protestant variety), and my disposition as a Canadian.

Monarchy, though, is always at least outwardly religious; whether the Christian monarchs of Europe, or the Islamic kingdoms like Morocco, or Japan, almost all monarchies, if not all, either credit their authority to govern to God, and are seen to at least outwardly conform to a particular faith. And most of the most ardent monarchists one encounters online tend to be religious, and particularly, Roman Catholic.

As a Jew, but not a religious one, would you welcome a religious monarchy for Israel, a return to (what I call) the Old Testament monarchies? How comfortable could you, as a modern, non-observant type, fit into such a society?

Just curious.

To clarify, could you envision an Israeli monarchy without theocracy?

Also, IHTG asked in my Open Thread:

You’ve expressed sympathies for monarchism in the past.

Looking at Jewish history, we have two examples of monarchic rule – the revered biblical Davidic kingdom of Judah, and the oft-overlooked* Hasmonean Judea.

So, what sort of monarchism did you have in mind, and how would it compare to those two examples?

*I’m of the opinion that the annals of the Maccabim are ignored to our detriment. For example, their policy of conversion of non-Jews, which would seem bizarre to modern Jews, but could conceivably have been a useful tool for the reborn Israel.

I thought this merited a full treatment rather than just specific response only to the questions raised. So I’ll try to do that here.

Monarchy

Israel's chance at a Jewish monarchy depends on accepting rule by the House of David.When I speak and think about monarchy, I’m referring to a system of government in which one man owns the government in the name of his family. He inherited the government from his father and grandfather and he will pass it to his son and grandson. There is no “politics” in the sense that it exists now, because the opinions of the general public are irrelevant to, and not solicited by, the few who rule, and because the barriers to entry into the government are so high as to be nearly insurmountable. But there is “politics” in the sense of politics as a branch of philosophy, which will always be consulted by people with power.

A dictatorship is not a monarchy, whether it’s a single guy who seized power, or a party, or the military or a faction in the military, no matter in whose name the dictatorship rules. Dictatorships have rather low barriers to entry – any schmuck can grow up one day to be a dictator – and in a dictatorship it’s never clear who the next dictator will be, with huge internal power struggles that are just more violent and byzantine versions of the democratic politics we know. I’m leaving aside constitutional monarchies as not relevant since, as we can see when we look around the world at them, a constitutional monarchy is just a premature republic.

I agree that monarchies are religious by nature. It’s not an accident that so many different religious traditions like to compare their gods to kings, and their kings to gods. A god implies order. We’re taught to love and fear a god, to request humbly from a god and to give thanks to a god. A king’s power can seem godlike and, for a religious tradition like Judaism that makes it so hard to conceive of God because God isn’t supposed to have human attributes, we can think that God is kinglike and at least have some sense of godliness. A king must concern himself with his domain’s religion.

Jewish Monarchy

The United Monarchy lasted for about a century and it’s the basis for what a Jewish monarchy should be, especially the second and third monarchs, David and his son Solomon. Hundreds of years later, the Hashmonaim also claimed the title “king,” but this is generally considered to have been illegitimate because they were also high priests, and as cohanim they were from the tribe of Levi and not from the house of David. Moreover, Israel was not really independent at that time, so it would be a stretch to consider them fully kings. It’s hard to say whether the Jews had more sovereignty then (under mainly the Romans) than we have now (under the Americans), but in any case the “kings” were something like vassals. An earlier title that the Hashmonaim used before king, ethnarch, describes their position well.

Jewish Messianism

The Jewish messiah is a living human male Jew in the future who will be anointed (משיח) king. That’s all. You don’t have to believe in anything supernatural to believe in the Jewish messiah. You can even believe in the Jewish messiah without believing in God. In order to be an anointed Jewish king, he’ll have to be a true descendant of David. The Rambam helpfully gave us some handy tools for figuring out if a certain person is or is not the messiah.

How we can be pretty sure someone is the messiah:

  • He’s a king.
  • He’s from the House of David.
  • He studies the Torah intensely and observes the mitzvot (written and oral) in David’s style.
  • He compels some sort of Torah lifestyle for the whole nation.
  • He corrects or clarifies the issues that are unclear about the law.
  • He fights what is basically the Jewish notion of holy war, a war of conquest over the land of Israel and to defend Jews.

And here’s how we can be certain that someone is the messiah:

Note that I don’t exactly hold by the Rambam’s interpretation or his rulings, or necessarily by what any rabbi says. But I find his wisdom very instructive and I like to cite it on this topic. Of course, I don’t believe the “oral law” is binding and I certainly don’t think King David had any idea that, 1000 years after he lived, some people called “rabbis” would develop the concept of an “oral law” that he is supposed to have followed. But that’s beside the point. One of my favorite parts about the Rambam’s brief lists of qualifying traits is that he’s also clear that the messiah must be living. Another thing I like about it is that he basically says that the messiah will not change supernatural into natural. Life will still go on, in all its infinite intricacies. Nothing scientifically incomprehensible will happen. Again, I do not believe that Jews are required to agree with the Rambam’s opinions on this matter, or even that Jews are required to believe in a messiah.

Why do I mention Jewish messianism in this context? Only because that will be the vehicle for restoring Jewish monarchy in Israel. No other type of Jewish king besides a Davidic one will ever have the legitimacy that was lacking when the Hashmonaim tried to usurp it.

How a Jewish monarchy in Israel will happen

Unlike many Haredim, I don’t believe the third Temple is going to fall out of the sky one day onto the Temple Mount, already built. Nor do I believe it’s going to happen in the way that most people think it probably would happen: the situation in Israel gets intolerably bad, then it gets even worse, then we all figure that we may as well just give power to some guy, and that guy solves our problems and we live happily ever after with him wearing a crown.

I actually believe that we’re going to have to be somewhat advanced in solving our own problems before the stage will even be set for a monarch to enter. Some things that will need to happen in preparation:

  • The country’s Muslim population will need to be expelled. It doesn’t mean that Muslims can’t be living here, but it does mean that they can’t be living here as a population, a national minority with group rights. As families and as individuals, they’ll have to accept a different status than the one they have now. This can either transpire in war, as the local Muslim population is shown to be openly and actively supporting our external enemies, or it can happen when there’s no war being fought. Israel already has the precise legal mechanism for effecting an expulsion of civilians under non-conflict conditions: it’s the 2005 Evacuation-Compensation Law that was used to expel the Jews from Gaza and northern Samaria. In that case, expulsion was absolute, down to every last man, woman and child, every animal, and they even demolished the synagogues and dug up the corpses from the ground and expelled them to different cemeteries.
  • Construction of the Temple will need to begin. Preparation for the construction is already underway and it depends on things like whether they do have, or are getting, a red heifer, and/or whether they’re in fact successfully raising some children of cohanim in isolation so as to keep them ritually pure. Of course the mosques will need to be removed. I consider the Dome of the Rock to be of sublime beauty and I hope it can be taken apart carefully and reconstructed somewhere else in the world. I don’t think the Temple will need to be completed; perhaps that’s something that the messiah will do.
  • The Sanhedrin will need to be strengthened. I’m not sure that the nascent Sanhedrin established six years ago will be the actual body that serves in the role, but I have a lot of respect for their initiative. Already they are hearing civil cases and there are people accused of political crimes by the state who have refused to be judged except by the Sanhedrin. In the future, these trends can grow and, if the state’s value system alienates the majority of traditional Jews, they may gradually shift their allegiance to the Sanhedrin if the Sanhedrin makes itself worthy. Of course, the Sanhedrin itself will have to evolve. It will need to make rulings that manage to satisfy groups of people with fundamentally opposed worldviews. I expect the Sanhedrin to do a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of ironing out differences in liturgy and interpretation of halacha for the different Jewish communities.
  • Some internal divisions will need to be overcome. Some will never be overcome, but I’m optimistic about the most superficial ones. I’d like to see the further growth of a true “Eretz-Yisraeli” Jewish identity that manages to supersede identities based on where our ancestors lived approximately 1000 years ago. When a majority of Jews in Israel can not easily explain whether they are Ashkenazi, Mizrachi or Sfaradi, this will have been achieved.

I don’t doubt that, if these things actually do happen, they will not happen in a vacuum. Instead, they will all be tied in with one another and with other of what I once called historical-redemptive processes (I was trying to bridge a group of religious people and Marxists). Moreover, the progress will not be straightforward, but will take a very long time, and there will be setbacks along the way. But that’s what needs to happen.

Features of a Jewish Monarchy

I expect a Jewish monarchy to be fully monarchical and fully Jewish. There will be no give-and-take between Judaism and monarchy like there is today when Israel calls itself “a Jewish and democratic state” and finds that Judaism is essentially anti-democratic and democracy is essentially anti-Jewish. I do not expect the king to sit around and learn Torah all day long to try to figure out how he should rule. The Torah doesn’t tell a king much about which policies he should pursue. In his personal life, the king is not going to approach life like a “yeshiva bochur” does. He will not spend a moment wondering whether to put his right shoe or his left shoe on first, and once they’re on, he will not spend a moment wondering which to tie first. He will be “religious” in the sense that he observes the mitzvot as he understands them. But the terms “religious” and even “religion” that I know from growing up in America aren’t easily translatable into Judaism. Perhaps his personal observance will be more like what we now call “traditional.”

Potential problems facing a Jewish monarchy before it exists

There’s only one main problem: America doesn’t want it. Israel is in America’s camp, and while we’re free to govern ourselves with much autonomy, no country in America’s camp gets to make its own decisions on every issue. The bottom line is that if America continues as is or gets stronger, it will remain impossibly difficult for countries to become independent, and nearly as difficult for countries to stay independent, as it is now. But if America gets weaker or somehow manages to break apart, many additional countries will experience real independence.

I am a former card-carrying Libertarian and I could certainly justify a more isolated America and/or an America that’s broken up into 50 independent or semi-independent states in pro-American terms, but it would be disingenuous of me now to do that. I don’t give a damn how Americans govern themselves except that everyone else has to fall in line. I favor a return to sovereignty of more than just a handful of countries, with most countries being led by America.

Challenges to Israeli monarchy

Kings are not really well equipped to deal with presidents. Democratic politicians are (self) selected for their cunning and their lack of scruples, while kings are educated to be wise and temperate. So a monarchic Israel, which will obviously face major challenges diplomatically, may find itself at a further setback trying to address them.

Secession is obviously a prime concern. If Israel establishes itself as a sovereign monarchy some day by seceding from the established world order (American hegemony), what’s to stop Tel Aviv from seceding from Israel, Ramat Aviv from then seceding from Tel Aviv, Ramat Aviv Gimel from seceding from Ramat Aviv, and so on, down to the individual who can’t decide whether or not to secede from his own brain? In short: nothing much, and any substantial change to the world order is a recipe for war between the people who don’t like it and the people who like it a little too much. Sometimes things just need to be fought out.

Another worry is that we could get a king in charge who simply doesn’t care about Judaism and Zionism. Maybe he’ll trade Jerusalem in exchange for Beirut; maybe he’ll bring in Chinese administrators to run everything. Maybe he’ll ban Hebrew and circumcision. We have to assume, though, that a king’s family will derive its rule’s legitimacy from Judaism and that the king’s own religious beliefs will prevent him from flushing it all down the toilet. In cases where he tries to do so, the family can always step in to remove him and put his son or brother on the throne.

Other comments

I believe Hillel Weiss has written about this extensively. I haven’t consulted his work because I don’t have the patience to read it all in Hebrew.

Mencius Muldbug’s idea of a modern substitute for absolute monarchy is called neo-cameralism. I’m intrigued by it, but also concerned that it would be plagued by legitimacy problems. Also, it’s a little too high tech science fictiony for my taste.

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{ 23 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Will S. כ״ו בתמוז ה׳תש״ע (Thursday 8 July 2010) at 12:54:40 am

Many thanks, Genius, for explaining what you believe regarding monarchy.

A small quibble: do you not think it’s a little disingenious to argue that one needn’t believe in God or the supernatural in order to believe in a messiah? After all, a messiah is one whose arrival / return is prophecied, and prophecy, as distinguished from mere predictions about the future, is usually seen as a divinely-granted vision of the future.

2 Genius כ״ו בתמוז ה׳תש״ע (Thursday 8 July 2010) at 1:07:05 am

Plenty of irreligious Jews have supported, or do support, elements of Jewish messianism, like the שיבת ציון‎ (return to Zion) and the קיבוץ גלויות (ingathering of the exiles) of modern times that still continue. One could say that they took these religious concepts and secularized them, and that this is what Zionism is all about. One could just as easily take the rest of the messiah prophesies to be self-fulfilling. And if eventually there’s a good chance that there will be a “messiah,” and one doesn’t think that this messiah is divinely guided, but one supports the notion of kingship, why not get behind the potential future messiah as a king?

3 IHTG כ״ו בתמוז ה׳תש״ע (Thursday 8 July 2010) at 1:02:58 pm

Religious beliefs aside, I can understand why you’re dismissive of a non-Davidic monarchy. Israel has so far failed to produce any successful “nobility” of its own who could fit the bill.
Looking at the descendants of the various founding figures, we see at best, stalwart but low key ideologists (think Benny Begin), at worst, outright traitors (such as the loathsome Avraham Burg), but mostly, we see mediocre figures.
Perhaps the country and its society are simply too young for such a caste to have properly formed. Critics of Jewish national character have often claimed that Jewish elites are inherently of a mercantile/plutocratic nature, and aren’t suitable political leadership. I suppose the future will show us if that’s true.

4 Genius כ״ו בתמוז ה׳תש״ע (Thursday 8 July 2010) at 1:37:06 pm

Israel has so far failed to produce any successful “nobility” of its own who could fit the bill.

I’m not sure a nobility can be produced. Maybe a nation’s noble families must precede the state, so they can feel superiority toward it, in the way that England’s noble families are traced back to Normandy, and Rome’s patrician families preceded even the Republic.

On the other hand, wasn’t the wholesale fabrication of a national nobility something with which Jabotinsky involved himself in his Betar movement? When you look at a guy like Benny Begin, that’s one of Jabotinsky’s big successes: in his life he is a lot like what Jabotinsky envisioned. On the other hand, when you look at a guy like Ehud Olmert, that’s one of Jabotinsky’s big failures. Who had more impact on Israel? And even in his forced retirement, Olmert will continue to shape this society more than Begin ever could. (This Sunday marks 70 years since Jabotinsky’s death, by the way.)

Nobility is something that I haven’t considered a lot. I wonder if our two castes, Levi and Cohen, could stand in for noble classes. It might be awkward to have a royal family drawn from a completely different caste than the nobility, but on the other hand, intermarriage between the king’s family and the leading priestly families is legitimate and might be a more fruitful way of “marrying” the throne and to the altar, as the Hashmonaim tried.

5 jkr כ״ז בתמוז ה׳תש״ע (Friday 9 July 2010) at 6:23:33 am

great stuff.

6 Genius כ״ז בתמוז ה׳תש״ע (Friday 9 July 2010) at 3:27:06 pm

Thanks; I’d love to hear your views and/or questions.

7 Mark Doane ד׳ באב ה׳תש״ע (Thursday 15 July 2010) at 6:29:15 am

Kings are not really well equipped to deal with presidents. Democratic politicians are (self) selected for their cunning and their lack of scruples, while kings are educated to be wise and temperate. So a monarchic Israel, which will obviously face major challenges diplomatically, may find itself at a further setback trying to address them.

Kings are equipped to deal with presidents, that is why kings have foreign ministers just like republics. Your first king is also likely to have grown up under a democratic state and have learned a lot under such a system. Besides, not all kings are wise and temperate. Second, monarchies have politics like all other forms of government, the many wars of succession in European history prove my point.

Speaking practically the first step towards expelling your national minorities will be to deny them the vote.

I am eagerly awaiting your next layout and page address change.

8 Genius ד׳ באב ה׳תש״ע (Thursday 15 July 2010) at 11:22:30 am

Kings are equipped to deal with presidents, that is why kings have foreign ministers just like republics.

That’s true, though I wonder how a foreign minister answering to a king who owns the government will fare against a foreign minister whose unscrupulous cunning is what got him to that point.

Your first king is also likely to have grown up under a democratic state and have learned a lot under such a system.

Good point – I hope that will make him a better ruler. On the other hand, he’ll have experienced the failure of democracy and the transition to monarchy, so I don’t know how that will affect him.

Besides, not all kings are wise and temperate.

Of course not, but they’re raised to be that way. No future president, however, is given the kind of education and upbringing that a future king gets.

Second, monarchies have politics like all other forms of government, the many wars of succession in European history prove my point.

There aren’t that many wars of succession in European history. Consider the War of Spanish Succession and the Spanish Civil War: one in half a millennium of Christian monarchy in Spain, another in a few decades of Spanish democracy.

Speaking practically the first step towards expelling your national minorities will be to deny them the vote.

I’d certainly like to disenfranchise the Muslim population today as a first step to expelling them tomorrow, but actually it’s not a necessary step. The Jews of Gaza were expelled while they still formally retained the rights to vote and protest; the plan went forward even though they successfully elected a guy who campaigned against the expulsion idea, and it was legitimized by their foolish participation in the democratic process up to the last minute.

Taking away Muslims’ voting rights might actually backfire by making it into a democratic struggle of influence in the government. I wouldn’t want that to happen.

I am eagerly awaiting your next layout and page address change.

Haha. I am using this site to try out ideas for other sites that I’m building. I think I like the URLs as they are, and I don’t anticipate doing much with the design for now.

9 Mark Doane ה׳ באב ה׳תש״ע (Friday 16 July 2010) at 7:34:39 pm

There aren’t that many wars of succession in European history. Consider the War of Spanish Succession and the Spanish Civil War: one in half a millennium of Christian monarchy in Spain, another in a few decades of Spanish democracy.

Spain and its children haven’t achieved shit since 1492. You could attribute this to the lack of Jews in Spain, but Latin America has Jews and it doesn’t achieve all that much either. Brazil is a partial exception with Embraer, but Brazil is Portuguese, not Spanish. Pick a successful country as an example of what you believe, since the last thing you want to advocate for is for Israel to become Latin America.

10 Genius ה׳ באב ה׳תש״ע (Friday 16 July 2010) at 10:07:21 pm

Spain and its children haven’t achieved shit since 1492.

Basically true, though arguably the first and the most sublimely wonderful novel ever written came out of Spain in the early seventeenth century.

You could attribute this to the lack of Jews in Spain, but Latin America has Jews and it doesn’t achieve all that much either.

I’m not one of those people who thinks that countries’ fortunes rise and fall based on how they treat their Jews. East Asian countries don’t have many Jews and they’re doing fine, except when they’re not.

Brazil is a partial exception with Embraer, but Brazil is Portuguese, not Spanish. Pick a successful country as an example of what you believe, since the last thing you want to advocate for is for Israel to become Latin America.

I only meant that Spain under its absolute monarchy was pretty successful at limiting politics (one war of succession in hundreds of years) and that, when it went from absolute monarchy to republic, a very brutal civil war followed almost immediately.

11 Mark Doane ו׳ באב ה׳תש״ע (Saturday 17 July 2010) at 1:55:58 am

I’m not one of those people who thinks that countries’ fortunes rise and fall based on how they treat their Jews. East Asian countries don’t have many Jews and they’re doing fine, except when they’re not.

East Asia is rapidly going Protestant. Hong Kong has a United Way-type organization that funds a surprising number of Protestant religious charities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Community_Chest_of_Hong_Kong

I remember about ten years ago Pat Robertson stated on TV that South Korea is the number two source of Christian missionaries in the world.

I only meant that Spain under its absolute monarchy was pretty successful at limiting politics (one war of succession in hundreds of years) and that, when it went from absolute monarchy to republic, a very brutal civil war followed almost immediately.

Some groups cannot handle political freedom. Although America is a basket case in many ways it has only had two civil wars fought on its territory in the last 400 years (1775-1783 & 1861-1865).

I wrote…
Pick a successful country as an example of what you believe, since the last thing you want to advocate for is for Israel to become Latin America.

In some ways Israel is a far bigger success story than realized considering that is culturally Russian Orthodox and Islamic. Of course in saying this I am assuming that you are right about the Russian Orthodox origin of Israeli culture.

If you are right that Israeli culture is just Russian Orthodox culture from the year 1900 then you support for absolute monarchy is just a desire on your part for a Jewish Tsar. In short, your support for monarchy is just proof of your assimilation to Israeli culture.

12 Genius ו׳ באב ה׳תש״ע (Saturday 17 July 2010) at 4:03:04 pm

East Asia is rapidly going Protestant.

When I meet east Asians, including evangelical South Koreans, the sense I get is that they are very firmly Christian in a religious sense, but that culturally-civilizationally they are completely Asian. I’ve even observed this among some very religious Asians whose families have been in the United States for a few generations. They are oriented (no pun intended) very much with Asia in mind, and I don’t see them as Christians who happen to have Asian ancestry.

I wonder how Protestant Christianity will evolve and/or what form it will take in the future in the far east. I am partial to the Wahhabi-Calvinist dour austerity that Confucian civilization also has.

Although America is a basket case in many ways it has only had two civil wars fought on its territory in the last 400 years (1775-1783 & 1861-1865).

America is interesting in so very many ways. The American sense of bigness is so ingrained that Americans don’t blink an eye before packing up and moving to some other corner of the country for any old reason. Imagine how many civil wars the Americans would have fought if the frontier had been closed in the sixteenth century instead of the nineteenth. Think of every religion that got started in America (eg, Mormons), every colony that started as an outpost of a previous colony due to religious disputes (eg, Rhode Island), every mass expulsion of the Indians to some other territory (eg, Georgia to Oklahoma). Every one of these was a civil war never fought because the losers had another place to go.

Pick a successful country as an example of what you believe, since the last thing you want to advocate for is for Israel to become Latin America.

I guess I don’t see what you mean, since every country in Latin America is a democracy, not a monarchy.

In some ways Israel is a far bigger success story than realized considering that is culturally Russian Orthodox and Islamic. Of course in saying this I am assuming that you are right about the Russian Orthodox origin of Israeli culture.

I said that the Israeli ethos is essentially Russian, not that it’s essentially Russian Orthodox. It may not seem like a big difference, but I don’t think I’d say that the English ethos is quite the same as the Anglican ethos, for example (if there is such a thing, considering Anglican diversity). Russian Orthodoxy, like any civilizational religion, also sows the seeds of its own opponents’ worldviews, all of which are Russian but none of which are Russian Orthodox. Many of the immigrants from the first, second and third Aliyot came out of a crucible of engagement between the agrarian, anarchist, Tolstoyan, Social-Revolutionary, or Social-Democrat Russian experience with the Haskalah,Hasidic or shtetl Jewish-Russian experience.

I am the only person making the case that Israeli society is much, much more Russian than it seems to be, so I’m happy to have convinced you.

If you are right that Israeli culture is just Russian Orthodox culture from the year 1900 then you support for absolute monarchy is just a desire on your part for a Jewish Tsar. In short, your support for monarchy is just proof of your assimilation to Israeli culture.

Except I’m a yekke.

13 IHTG ו׳ באב ה׳תש״ע (Saturday 17 July 2010) at 6:33:28 pm

“Except I’m a yekke.”

Oh man, is it me or are all of the Internet “hard right” Jews either Russian emigres or Yekkim*?
I’d be worried if one of my best friends wasn’t a quasi-fascist Polish Jew.

*You can extend the definition of that to “German and Austro-Hungarian” to include a certain water engineer.

14 Genius ו׳ באב ה׳תש״ע (Saturday 17 July 2010) at 6:36:51 pm

Well, my ancestry is mixed – largely from central Europe on one side, from Austrian Galicia and Russian Byelorussia on the other side – I mean that I’m a yekke in the cultural sense of just being a civilized person, which stands out as different in Israel.

15 Mark Doane ז׳ באב ה׳תש״ע (Sunday 18 July 2010) at 4:31:09 am

I think I saw someone else make the case that Israel is culturally Russian, so some segment of Israel’s smart fraction is almost certainly aware of this.

I guess I don’t see what you mean, since every country in Latin America is a democracy, not a monarchy.

Yes, but most of these countries have reverted to despotism in the past century, sometimes repeatedly.

16 Genius ז׳ באב ה׳תש״ע (Sunday 18 July 2010) at 1:11:39 pm

I think I saw someone else make the case that Israel is culturally Russian, so some segment of Israel’s smart fraction is almost certainly aware of this.

That’s very exciting to me! I’ve never heard of anyone who agrees with me on that point.

Yes, but most of these countries have reverted to despotism in the past century, sometimes repeatedly.

Always via democracy and always returning to democracy.

Despotism is not monarchy. One is a style of rule and the other is a system for deciding who gets to rule. A monarch can be despotic or he can be liberal, if he wants.

17 Mark Doane ט׳ באב ה׳תש״ע (Tuesday 20 July 2010) at 4:46:02 am

I think I saw the commenter “B” over on h2oreuse state Israel is essentially Russian in character, and I think he said that either he or his parents originate in the Jewish communities of Russia.

Genius, I don’t want to live under a monarchy. Our problems stem from the fact that a section of the White population is batshit crazy. I can prove who these people are and can do so without an appeal to a conspiracy theory.

Monarchy (in an American context) is just an attempt to continue things as they are without pointing any fingers at the defective White groups that are either in alliance with our colored underclass or refuse to get on the White bandwagon. Monarchy wouldn’t solve America’s pressing demographic problems anymore than the conversion to monarchy under Augustus solved Rome’s very similar problems.

I don’t give a damn about Israel’s form of government anymore than the Romans of 200 BC cared about whether there was a Jewish republic or monarchy in the southeast Mediterranean. If America is going to project power into that region into the 21st century we will need the cooperation of the Jewish state to do so, otherwise your form of government is your business. The problem is that so much of America’s official intellectual establishment is composed of diaspora Jews who, despite being unwilling to move to Israel themselves, still hold a special place for it in their hearts and see it as their morningstar to guide them. I don’t want to live under monarchy, but if the intellectual climate of Israel changes, such changes could spill over to here in modified form, such as neocon support for a military takeover of our government.

The real problem behind all of this is that both America and Israel are walking down the same path our ancestors went down 2,000 years ago. Rome helped the Jews reestablish their lost state 2200 years ago and supported it until 70 AD, when Roman opinion turned anti-semitic. The Anglo-American world helped the Jews establish a state of their own in the SE Mediterranean and has not opposed Israel militarily, although we haven’t been the best of friends either. In the cases of both Rome and America there have been accusations of undue Jewish influence in the offices of the Republic.

After the time of Christ, Rome fell, north Africa was lost, mongrelized and islamized, and the population of what had been the territories of the Empire dropped by half. I’m sure you are familiar with what happened to the Jews during this period.

Anyway, I am not going any further on this today. I don’t want to repeat ancient history.

18 Mark Doane ט׳ באב ה׳תש״ע (Tuesday 20 July 2010) at 4:48:04 am

I don’t know why but whenever I review the comments I have left on the internet I always feel either semi-literate or stupid after seeing all of my minor grammar errors and badly planned sentences.

Argghhhh.

19 Genius ט׳ באב ה׳תש״ע (Tuesday 20 July 2010) at 10:18:35 am

When examining illegal immigration from central America, a monarch would ask, Does this increase my domain’s prosperity and my family’s wealth in the long run or decrease it? I don’t know the answer to the question, but I know he’ll ask the question. In contrast, when examining illegal immigration from central America, a president asks, How can I manipulate this phenomenon to improve my party’s public relations and increase my chances of being elected?

You’re right that going from democracy to monarchy doesn’t solve any problems. All it does is create an incentive system for solving problems where today there are actually disincentives.

Our form of government is not just our business: Americans care deeply about how their friends, allies and clients govern themselves. The United States does not accept its client states becoming monarchies, and I don’t see this changing any time soon.

Israel needs to stop being a client state of America. But we can’t just become a client of some other world power, like China or Russia, because certainly Chinese or Russian suzerainty would be worse in every way than American suzerainty. And independence, of the kind enjoyed by North Korea or South Africa under the apartheid regime, is also not an option. We need to find a way to break down the current system of American international hegemony so that America is not going to project power into the middle east (at least not as it currently does).

20 Mark Doane י׳ באב ה׳תש״ע (Wednesday 21 July 2010) at 6:59:42 am

Let me rewrite what you wrote for my own purposes:
When examining illegal immigration from central America, a monarch would ask, Does this increase my family’s wealth in the long run or decrease it?

Increasing immigration could conceivably increase the wealth of a royal family if they were skilled at profiting off the liquidation of their subjects wealth.

All it does is create an incentive system for solving problems where today there are actually disincentives.

The problem is that for America a change to the system you are advocating wouldn’t benefit us since it would probably lead to something worse.

Let me get back to my original point, and that is that America’s problem is that a large minority of the White vote has sided with our colored underclass. In order to see this you have to break down the American electorate into several groups in order to analyze their behavior separately:

*Coloreds – typically give 67-98% of their vote to the Democratic Party.

*White Protestants (including Mormons) – typically give 75% of their votes to the GOP in any given election year

*Jews – usually give 75% of their vote to the DP, depending on the year.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewvote.html

*White Catholics – This is the swing group since they split their vote 50-50 with minor swings of five points in either direction in given year. A good example of WC’s oscillating back and forth would be the 2008 election when they were mildly pro-McCain until the press spooked them with an economic scare that had already been brewing for months. Wall Street was probably in on the timing of this scare. Since the collapse had to happen anyway they probably reasoned that they might as well use it to promote their political agenda.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1016/obama-catholic-vote

If each of the above mentioned groups were to simply vote the same every election year then we could calculate the outcome of every election in advance based on voting behavior and census statistics. The political behavior of most of the groups mentioned above is pretty well fixed, but the one swing group is the one that generally swings elections. When White Catholics have a large enough majority they revert to outright leftism, as demonstrated by 50% Catholic Massachusetts electing an obese swine like Ted Kennedy for 46 years.

In fact, considering that all six Republican appointees to the Supreme Court are White Catholics I wouldn’t be surprised if an American monarchy turned out to be papist, or at least heavily sympathetic to papism.

21 Eugene Ha-Levy י״ט בתשרי ה׳תשע״א (Monday 27 September 2010) at 5:22:01 pm

Thanks to the author for the idea to discuss the subject of monarchical Israel!The idea of a new state – the monarchy of Israel is interesting and relevant but only in pure geopolitical aspects.Attempt to attach Judaism and trash about Judaism is – an attempt to attach parts from bike to cake.

22 Genius כ״ו בתשרי ה׳תשע״א (Monday 4 October 2010) at 8:50:49 pm

Hi Eugene, thanks so much for commenting. I of course disagree about your characterization of Judaism as trash: certainly I think Judaism is very much stuck in the middle ages and needs to reach into its classical past to forge a new and modern identity by re-imagining the rabbinic domination, but strengthening the Sanhedrin and identifying a king are steps in this process and parallel to it. There can be no Jewish king in Israel without Judaism and I’m not sure I’d want there to be one… what good would it do to have a Christian or Muslim king here?

23 Daniel Levi א׳ באדר ה׳תשע״ב (Friday 24 February 2012) at 11:14:36 pm

I support a return to tribal Pre-Monarchic Israel when there were no kings. Israel’s monarchy was a result of Israel’s desire to be like other nations and to not have G-d reign over them (I Samuel 8).

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